tatting her way to the scaffold

[majolika.livejournal.com]

Did you know this drawing? That's Marie-Antoinette, aged 7. Such a *huge* shuttle! I read somewhere that she tatted all the time later in life, especially while she was waiting to be beheaded on the Guillotine.



EDIT: no, this is NOT a tatting shuttle. Please see comments.

Comments

[moniqueleigh]

Eh, that's probably a netting shuttle based on the size.

[jonquil.livejournal.com]

Yup. Tatting hadn't become widespread yet; I think it only dates to the 1800s.

[moniqueleigh]

That's what my research says too. I've not found anything prior to, I think, the 1830s.

[majolika.livejournal.com]

oh, I'm sorry! The book I found this in said it's frivolité. And also what I read about the queen's pasttime in jail. Do you know if "frivolité" meant something different in the 1700s? How was this fine-lady craft called where they plucked gold-threads out of fabric and made tassels from it?

And I admit I didn't know that netting can be done with a shuttle, the only tool I know is some sort of two-sided big needle.

I'll delete the post tomorrow, promise!

[moniqueleigh]

First, don't delete it! This is a common misunderstanding, & seeing this post (& comments) might help somebody else. :)

Erm, what book? A lot of folks just copy what they've seen in other books. Unfortunately, in the 1800s, authors would often claim great age for something for whatever reasons (to make it more legitimate, in some cases). So, history buffs & researchers get snookered lots of times. :)

[majolika.livejournal.com]

it's just a stupid German crafts book from the 1970s. I'm sure there was no historical research done. Well, and I looked at it, and I thought, well her head is also too big, and ... um, I wish I could locate the other quote about her crafts, I wonder what I read/dreamt there:)

[moniqueleigh]

Oh, & I don't know if frivolité was used for anything in the 1700s. Nor do I know a name for the tassels thing. Maybe just tassel-making? *shrug* Sorry I can't help with those.

Netting was a very popular craft in the 18th century, often done with extremely fine/expensive threads by the upper classes. And, yes, the two-sided needle is most often seen, but all those 18th century pics of shuttles are of netting shuttles. They were often very elaborately painted & jeweled, too. :D

[majolika.livejournal.com]

daft mistake -> great information :D
thank you!

[moniqueleigh]

Yeah, the author probably just copied what some previous author had written. *shrug* It happens. Blomqvist & Persson do it in their book, as do several others. :)

[moniqueleigh]

Oh, you're most welcome!! I know I was horribly disappointed to find I couldn't do tatting for SCA-related stuff. I can for "attempts that just have to look good from 3 feet away" or Ren Faire stuff, but not if I want historical accuracy. *pouts*

[majolika.livejournal.com]

Ha, I read some of the (rather heated) discussions in SCA circles if tatting "fits" or not; I remember (um ... I *think* I remember) someone insisted that it's okay because tatting somehow equals knotting and this is okay for the defined period. Even with bobbin lace it's a bit questionable for the SCA period, right?

btw, would you mind if I added you?

[jonquil.livejournal.com]

Bobbin lace is an entirely different thing, and yes, it's not period unless you're way late.

Netting and nalbinding are SCA-period; tatting and crochet aren't.

[moniqueleigh]

Aroo? No, tatting does not equal knotting. I mean, yes, you make knots (obviously) in tatting, but they're totally different. They don't even look the same. *confused & boggled that someone would make that argument*

And, sure, go ahead & add me. I don't post much locked anyway. I see the f-list more as "these are the folks reading me" & "those are the folks I'm currently reading" than "these people are all my friends, & I don't trust anybody else." ;) I do very, very little Drah-ma, & actually try to stay out of most of the silliness.

[emmacrew.livejournal.com]

For the tassel stuff, I'm thinking passementerie.

In addition to netting, there are knotting shuttles, also not really tatting so much as making a length of knotted thread that could then be sewn onto a surface, basically a way to make the thread chunkier.

[jesslin.livejournal.com]

Erm, I think it's a knotting shuttle technically. You could make a fishing net with a shuttle that size, but not so much the finer net for fancy embroidery/lace/etc. The portrait's a tad out of proportion, which doesn't help.

I *so* want a time machine, just to take a peek at what these people were *doing* with all this string and shuttles! Gah! :D

...Don't mind me. I'm of the SCA bunch that wishes tatting (or something really close) was period, but refuses to accept it without some proof. Bobbin lace, however, is very period (1559 publish date for at least one of the pattern books). I'm still investigating how to tat so that it resembles reticella needle lace, but I'm afraid I keep getting sidetracked. *sigh* too many arts, not enough hands ;D

[moniqueleigh]

Passementerie! I think you're right... *does quick search on Google* Yup

[moniqueleigh]

I *so* want a time machine, just to take a peek at what these people were *doing* with all this string and shuttles! Gah! :D

...Don't mind me. I'm of the SCA bunch that wishes tatting (or something really close) was period, but refuses to accept it without some proof.

You & me both!!

[majolika.livejournal.com]

yes, passementerie is tassel-making - but I meant something different: it's called "Parfilage", and was less of a craft, more of an anti-craft in the 18th century. It's the plucking/unraveling of silver- or gold thead thread from embroidery/brocade/furniture fabric etc.; the ladies then knotted the "stolen" threads into something tassel-like and then often sold it for the pure value of the metal. It was the big rave in Rokoko France, in the salons the young ladies literally jumped at every man wearing epaulets to pluck out the threads.
I thought this might have been called "frivolité" too - it's frivolous enough - but I couldn't verify it, I guess I was wrong.

[moniqueleigh]

Hmmm.... I can't find anything on that except the definition you give. That may be the only name ever used for it. :)